RFI Musique: How would you define the French rock of the 80s?
Kid Loco: There's never been any such thing as rock in France! I never considered Téléphone [the immensely popular French group who split in 1984] as a real rock band in the sense that they never represented any kind of threat to anyone! Take Chuck Berry or The Sex Pistols or The Rolling Stones, when they arrived on the scene they trailed real revolution in their wake! Anyway, even if you did consider bands like Téléphone as rock groups, there was hardly what you'd call a scene in France. Téléphone managed to get a hit in the French Top 50 every now and then, but that was that. There was only one group. But over in the UK, you'd have at least 20 rock singles in the Top 40 at any one time. You'd have David Bowie, The Stones and a whole stack of others. That just never happened in France! Back in those days I was living out in the suburbs, in Orly, and we'd buy records in English by the likes of The Who. I did have mates who wanted to listen to rock in French, but all they had on offer was Lavilliers, Thiéfaine and Higelin. OK, so if pushed they could listen to Trust, because they sounded a bit like AC/DC, but Téléphone? No way, that was music for kids!

Is that why groups like Bérurier Noir and labels like Bondage came along to take over?
You know, everyone who was involved in that scene had come from the punk movement. We'd all been young punks at the end of the 70s. I was 13 in 1977 and I remember seeing a photo of The Sex Pistols and thinking, "Yeah, this is it!" I met the future members of Bérurier Noir in '78 and all I can say is, we lived through that entire period with our eyes riveted on what was happening in London. There was nothing back home in France! Maybe ten punk singles at best, but no album. The major labels didn't want to know. In their eyes, 'rock' groups had to sing in French and that was that! I remember looking at what was going on across the Channel with the emergence of all the indie labels and I didn't see why I should have to ask anyone's permission or approbation to make music. Anyway, I went on to record my first single with The Brigades when I was 15. We had to put up all the cash for it ourselves. And we were like, if we manage to sell 500 copies we'll break even, if we sell 1,000, we can make a follow-up! After that I went on to hook up with Philippe Baia who had great contacts and was ready to commit the necessary finance. We quickly moved on from the idea of managing and producing ourselves to the idea of setting up our own label. Several of us had exactly the same idea at the same time – and things started to take off from there!

How did this alternative scene evolve? Did the public latch on immediately?
Well, it was basically down to the emergence of independent local radio. Before independent stations sprang up, it had been impossible to get any kind of airplay. Mainstream radio broadcast Steely Dan records practically back to back! I was involved in doing a programme on a local station in Orly with a bunch of my mates. We were on the air every Tuesday from 10pm to midnight. It was brilliant 'cos we got to play absolutely anything we wanted! We used to go into Paris, too, to Cité 96, this indie radio station based in Montmartre. They had all these interesting guest stars and fantastic music which went on from 8 o'clock at night till 4 in the morning! That was the only media we had where we could express ourselves, apart from the fanzines which began to emerge around the same time.
The alternative scene began to exist in its own right. Things just grew and grew thanks to people who shared the same ideals. I'm talking about all the people who used to hang out in artists' squats, the graffiti artists, the photographers like Masto and painters who spearheaded the 'free figurative' movement like Combas. When you start putting your ideas into action, things exist in their own right and people have something to latch on to and follow. This was all happening on a relatively small scale, of course. Let's face it, Bérurier Noir never got close to having a gold disc! But things evolved nevertheless.

Do you think the indie scene in the 80s helped to revive French 'rock'?
Well, I'd say there's always been this sort of "birdie dance" tradition in France – and I don't think we totally avoided "birdie dance" stuff in the 80s! Bands like Les Satellites, Bérurier Noir and Ludwig 88 all used to clown around on stage and have fun. There was always a bit of a circus feel to things. I think, at the end of the day, we created something that was typically French, what with out realist songs and our berets and ripped jeans. We invented a whole new genre: ‘gavroche punk!’

Do you think it's the French language that renders the idea of French rock impossible?
Well, in English you can write a song in colloquial language, the way people talk. But you can't do that in French. Historically, rock is a music that's existed in English and, for me, singing rock in French is like singing flamenco in German! It just doesn't make sense. That's my way of looking at it, in any case. And all I can say is I've never written songs in French. But if you're based in France and you sing in English, then you're going to have a problem with sales. We realised that and knew we had to invent our own language. The 80s were all about liberating rock language and inventing a language of our own. Bérurier Noir played a major part in that and Métal Urbain did, too. Noir Désir managed to invent an entirely new syntax, cutting verbs and adjectives out of the equation… These experiments were similar to what a writer like Céline did to the French language in his time! But adapting the French language to rock was an artistic thing. It wasn't visceral and rock is by nature visceral and dangerous. It has to destabilise. Through rock the minority imposes its vision on the majority.It's not that the majority follows the movement, but it creeps into their daily lives nevertheless. They're like 'Oh my God, I wouldn't want my daughter to marry the singer from The Stones! I don't want my son watching The Sex Pistols swearing on television!' In France, no group ever managed to make an impact on that level.

Special thanks to Marsu for the photos and for giving us his point of view on the 80s rock scene.